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	<title>Comments for SwimFinsSF</title>
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	<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com</link>
	<description>Just another Gay Geek living in the City by the Bay...</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on So there isn&#8217;t confusion by Brian Brantner</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/17/so-there-isnt-confusion/#comment-19292</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Brantner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=794#comment-19292</guid>
		<description>Pete,

Bravo! I second your emotion.

XO,
Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete,</p>
<p>Bravo! I second your emotion.</p>
<p>XO,<br />
Brian</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lori Ann Turek: 1970-2008 by David</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/06/lori-ann-turek-1970-2008/#comment-19095</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/06/lori-ann-turek-1970-2008/#comment-19095</guid>
		<description>such sad news... and she's our age and looks so alive and joyful. ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>such sad news&#8230; and she&#8217;s our age and looks so alive and joyful. ugh.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do we move on? by troy</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/05/how-do-we-move-on/#comment-19062</link>
		<dc:creator>troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=787#comment-19062</guid>
		<description>I've watched as many of my friends got married these last few months. Most were small, personal ceremonies. Although I could not share the moments with them, I have been struck by the many ways they have shared their love and commitment to each other with their friends and "family". I get the feeling some were apprehensive about making too much of a big deal about it all (cause it may all go away?), but at the same time screamed their excitement and optimism and love to all. This is what we're fighting for: DO IT! LOVE IT! SHOUT IT TO THE MOUNTAIN TOPS! REVEL IN JOY! SHARE IT WITH US ALL! TELL US ABOUT IT! Go for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve watched as many of my friends got married these last few months. Most were small, personal ceremonies. Although I could not share the moments with them, I have been struck by the many ways they have shared their love and commitment to each other with their friends and &#8220;family&#8221;. I get the feeling some were apprehensive about making too much of a big deal about it all (cause it may all go away?), but at the same time screamed their excitement and optimism and love to all. This is what we&#8217;re fighting for: DO IT! LOVE IT! SHOUT IT TO THE MOUNTAIN TOPS! REVEL IN JOY! SHARE IT WITH US ALL! TELL US ABOUT IT! Go for it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do we move on? by bentguy (rik!)</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/05/how-do-we-move-on/#comment-19028</link>
		<dc:creator>bentguy (rik!)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=787#comment-19028</guid>
		<description>thanks for putting into words some thoughts that have been too tough for me to articulate. I know tomorrow we start again, but today I'm just too exhausted. :)  

best,
rik
Las Vegas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for putting into words some thoughts that have been too tough for me to articulate. I know tomorrow we start again, but today I&#8217;m just too exhausted. <img src='http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>best,<br />
rik<br />
Las Vegas</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do we move on? by Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/05/how-do-we-move-on/#comment-19027</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=787#comment-19027</guid>
		<description>Peter, your compelling and heartfelt words warm my heart. The love you and Kevin have for each other is one of the most beautiful things i've seen, and continues to be a guide for my life and pursuit of the same. 

We'll all get through this. With our community finally coming together and acting as one, we will overcome the bigotry and hate of the small-minded and ignorant who are so terrified of validating anything other than what they know in their tiny little lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, your compelling and heartfelt words warm my heart. The love you and Kevin have for each other is one of the most beautiful things i&#8217;ve seen, and continues to be a guide for my life and pursuit of the same. </p>
<p>We&#8217;ll all get through this. With our community finally coming together and acting as one, we will overcome the bigotry and hate of the small-minded and ignorant who are so terrified of validating anything other than what they know in their tiny little lives.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do we move on? by Clem Holloman</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/05/how-do-we-move-on/#comment-19012</link>
		<dc:creator>Clem Holloman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=787#comment-19012</guid>
		<description>Well said Pete.  I agree, its baffling to see friends and even some family vote against us, and listen to how they claim to be voting "for" something, not "Against us.  I think we see soberly and clearly what the motivations and arguments were that convinced them.    I am very sad today and angry as well ( I mean, c'mon, chickens??? ) but then I think, Ok, so the path is longer that we had hoped, and we have to go at least one more round here in CA, but we'll get there.  Time and Rightness are on our side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Pete.  I agree, its baffling to see friends and even some family vote against us, and listen to how they claim to be voting &#8220;for&#8221; something, not &#8220;Against us.  I think we see soberly and clearly what the motivations and arguments were that convinced them.    I am very sad today and angry as well ( I mean, c&#8217;mon, chickens??? ) but then I think, Ok, so the path is longer that we had hoped, and we have to go at least one more round here in CA, but we&#8217;ll get there.  Time and Rightness are on our side.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How do we move on? by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/05/how-do-we-move-on/#comment-19009</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=787#comment-19009</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that. That's exactly the perspective I need ... Reminding myself that the greater tide for civil rights has already turned in our favor and that my relationship with my partner endures and grows regardless of any vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that. That&#8217;s exactly the perspective I need &#8230; Reminding myself that the greater tide for civil rights has already turned in our favor and that my relationship with my partner endures and grows regardless of any vote.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama party in the Castro!!!! by Katie Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/04/obama-party-in-the-castro/#comment-19006</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/11/04/obama-party-in-the-castro/#comment-19006</guid>
		<description>Your optimism and hope shine brighter than any hate ever could and it IS going to be infectious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your optimism and hope shine brighter than any hate ever could and it IS going to be infectious.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Third Grade Gay by Katie Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/10/28/780/#comment-18953</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/10/28/780/#comment-18953</guid>
		<description>hahahaha.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hahahaha&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gotta love my mom! :) by Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.swimfinssf.com/wp-archives/2008/10/02/755/#comment-18374</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swimfinssf.com/?p=755#comment-18374</guid>
		<description>Can your mom come over to our neighborhood to and kick some ignorant ass? Or, at the very least, help me craft an email to the folks on our street? We aren't lucky enough to have folk on our street arguing about Obama vs. McCain, we have supporters of Prop 8 in our 'hood. 

Chris and I are both upset by an email we received last night from one of our neighbors. Not from that “sweet” older couple with the "Yes on Prop 8" signage displayed prominently in their front yard 3 houses down. Not them, but from yet a different neighbor all together. This is the same guy who used our annual street party as a venue to discuss his concerns about how the Church of LDS was being portrayed in the media. And, that he and his wife were opening their house every Thursday for folks from the neighborhood to come over and discuss the tenets of Mormonism. He couldn't understand why nobody was taking him up on his offer, so then began emailing all of us for three weeks in a row giving us more opportunities to engage him in a dialog. 
 
Honestly, we haven't decided on our best response yet. I'm leaning toward a polite reply all response that asks the author to kindly remove us from all future emails in which he shares his unsolicited personal political and/or religious beliefs. Informing him that I provided my email address in the spirit of establishing and maintaining neighborly rapport, and as such, am still very interested in receiving information about neighborhood watch programs, reporting about damage to personal property, welcoming new neighbors to our street, and the annual block party. In essence, reminding him of the widely recognized age-old American axiom cautioning people about discussing religion or politics. 
 
There's also the side of me that would like to remind him of the biblical commandment about, "Love thy neighbor as thyself, there is none other commandment greater than these." But I'm afraid that would just open the floodgates about biblical references and be counter-productive. 

I’ve also fantasized about some more petty and/or vindictive ways in which to respond such as: making cash donations in his honor to the No on Prop 8 organization, anonymously suggest that gay and lesbian real estate agents in the area contact him as a potential home seller, offer to host a house packing party for he and his wife, suggest that he seriously consider relocating to Colorado City, AZ where the majority of citizens believe that marriage is a sacred commitment to be shared between an old guy and his harem of child brides. 
 
Interested in hearing your thoughts and/or suggestions on how to be best proceed.
 
The names have been removed to protect the intolerant:
"My dear neighbors and friends, 
Some of you may have noticed that I have put up signs on my lawn requesting a Yes vote on Prep. 8. You might be disappointed that I would be so narrow minded and intolerant. Some of you may even be a little more than upset with me. If you watch closely, you will see that these signs will be put away at night. This is because many of my friends who have put up similar signs this week have had them stolen. Thus, we have been asked not to leave them up overnight.
I know that many of you may see Proposition 8, the Marriage Amendment, as nothing more than an effort to deprive a segment of our population of something that they deeply desire. Many will claim that those who support Prop. 8 are nothing more than religious bigots. They will claim that same sex marriage will not hurt anybody. They are so wrong. The issue here is not tolerance or discrimination. It is primarily about religious freedom. It's primarily about that proverbial slippery slope and Pandora's box.
The problem with what was done in March by that 4 to 3 vote is that when we change the legal definition of a word, especially a culturally rich word like marriage, the impacts on that culture can be significant and wide spread. The people of Massachusetts are beginning to see some aspects of that effect. Catholic Charities in Massachusetts refused, on religious grounds, to place children with same-sex couples as required by the Massachusetts court decision on same sex marriage. After a lengthy legislative struggle Catholic Charities pulled out of the adoption business in Massachusetts in 2006. Families in Massachusetts are also beginning to see the impact on education. Here is a video clip illustrating one aspect of that impact.
Now, you may not be concerned about this kind of impact, even considering this to be a good thing. You might believe that religions have had to much influence and it's about time that they should be forced to abandon their narrow minded intolerance. I know there are some that feel this way as I have been going from door to door in Almaden talking to our neighbors about this proposition. While most are confused by this proposition, there have been some who have expressed exactly this negative view of religious rights.
Now, might you begin to see a problem with this "same sex marriage" that has been legalized in California. While this change in the law has given some a "privilege" that they didn't have before, it has introduced by force of law a definition of a sacred word that many can not accept. The most significant potential impact of this changed definition is upon freedom of religion.
Now, you may say that the federal constitution guarantees religious freedom – no state could take that away. Consider: what will likely happen when a homosexual couple decides they want to be married in a Catholic church, by a Catholic priest, or in a Mormon chapel by a Mormon bishop. When that request is turned down, which it will be, there will likely be a lawyer in the parking lot. The issuing legal struggle will likely end in the revocation of California tax free status for any church that continues to refuse to perform a same sex marriage. There may also be other legal sanctions. What will happen when a guy activist attends an evangelical class on Romans chapter one. The instruction given will undoubtedly be declared illegal as this chapter of the scriptures clearly speaks of the homosexual life style as sin. 
This is not just paranoia. Recent court decisions from both California and other states, clearly illustrate where the courts are going. It has been only a little more than a month since the California Supreme Court declared that a doctor could not, on religious grounds, refuse to treat a gay patient. I've been told that this decision was very narrow and will not have significant effect. That may be true, but it's the wording of this decision that is of most concern: "In California, the law against discrimination trumps religious freedom."
Ok, maybe there is some intolerance involved, but you can see that intolerance goes both ways. If Prop. 8 does not pass, many of us will be legally required to accept and act on, a definition of marriage that we can not accept and stay true to our religious beliefs. If this definition remains in legal force in California, we and many others will have little choice but to leave California and go to where we might be free to live according to those religious truth that we find in our scriptures, even the Holy Bible. Can you see that not far down this slippery slope is a law that will even ban the Bible? On which side is the greater intolerance?
Now, perhaps you can understand why these signs are on my lawn, and why I, and many of my friends, are donating more than we can afford and are spending more time than we can spare going from door to door encouraging a YES vote on this proposition. I apologize to any whom I might be offended by my actions. My intent is not to offend only to defend."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can your mom come over to our neighborhood to and kick some ignorant ass? Or, at the very least, help me craft an email to the folks on our street? We aren&#8217;t lucky enough to have folk on our street arguing about Obama vs. McCain, we have supporters of Prop 8 in our &#8216;hood. </p>
<p>Chris and I are both upset by an email we received last night from one of our neighbors. Not from that “sweet” older couple with the &#8220;Yes on Prop 8&#8243; signage displayed prominently in their front yard 3 houses down. Not them, but from yet a different neighbor all together. This is the same guy who used our annual street party as a venue to discuss his concerns about how the Church of LDS was being portrayed in the media. And, that he and his wife were opening their house every Thursday for folks from the neighborhood to come over and discuss the tenets of Mormonism. He couldn&#8217;t understand why nobody was taking him up on his offer, so then began emailing all of us for three weeks in a row giving us more opportunities to engage him in a dialog. </p>
<p>Honestly, we haven&#8217;t decided on our best response yet. I&#8217;m leaning toward a polite reply all response that asks the author to kindly remove us from all future emails in which he shares his unsolicited personal political and/or religious beliefs. Informing him that I provided my email address in the spirit of establishing and maintaining neighborly rapport, and as such, am still very interested in receiving information about neighborhood watch programs, reporting about damage to personal property, welcoming new neighbors to our street, and the annual block party. In essence, reminding him of the widely recognized age-old American axiom cautioning people about discussing religion or politics. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the side of me that would like to remind him of the biblical commandment about, &#8220;Love thy neighbor as thyself, there is none other commandment greater than these.&#8221; But I&#8217;m afraid that would just open the floodgates about biblical references and be counter-productive. </p>
<p>I’ve also fantasized about some more petty and/or vindictive ways in which to respond such as: making cash donations in his honor to the No on Prop 8 organization, anonymously suggest that gay and lesbian real estate agents in the area contact him as a potential home seller, offer to host a house packing party for he and his wife, suggest that he seriously consider relocating to Colorado City, AZ where the majority of citizens believe that marriage is a sacred commitment to be shared between an old guy and his harem of child brides. </p>
<p>Interested in hearing your thoughts and/or suggestions on how to be best proceed.</p>
<p>The names have been removed to protect the intolerant:<br />
&#8220;My dear neighbors and friends,<br />
Some of you may have noticed that I have put up signs on my lawn requesting a Yes vote on Prep. 8. You might be disappointed that I would be so narrow minded and intolerant. Some of you may even be a little more than upset with me. If you watch closely, you will see that these signs will be put away at night. This is because many of my friends who have put up similar signs this week have had them stolen. Thus, we have been asked not to leave them up overnight.<br />
I know that many of you may see Proposition 8, the Marriage Amendment, as nothing more than an effort to deprive a segment of our population of something that they deeply desire. Many will claim that those who support Prop. 8 are nothing more than religious bigots. They will claim that same sex marriage will not hurt anybody. They are so wrong. The issue here is not tolerance or discrimination. It is primarily about religious freedom. It&#8217;s primarily about that proverbial slippery slope and Pandora&#8217;s box.<br />
The problem with what was done in March by that 4 to 3 vote is that when we change the legal definition of a word, especially a culturally rich word like marriage, the impacts on that culture can be significant and wide spread. The people of Massachusetts are beginning to see some aspects of that effect. Catholic Charities in Massachusetts refused, on religious grounds, to place children with same-sex couples as required by the Massachusetts court decision on same sex marriage. After a lengthy legislative struggle Catholic Charities pulled out of the adoption business in Massachusetts in 2006. Families in Massachusetts are also beginning to see the impact on education. Here is a video clip illustrating one aspect of that impact.<br />
Now, you may not be concerned about this kind of impact, even considering this to be a good thing. You might believe that religions have had to much influence and it&#8217;s about time that they should be forced to abandon their narrow minded intolerance. I know there are some that feel this way as I have been going from door to door in Almaden talking to our neighbors about this proposition. While most are confused by this proposition, there have been some who have expressed exactly this negative view of religious rights.<br />
Now, might you begin to see a problem with this &#8220;same sex marriage&#8221; that has been legalized in California. While this change in the law has given some a &#8220;privilege&#8221; that they didn&#8217;t have before, it has introduced by force of law a definition of a sacred word that many can not accept. The most significant potential impact of this changed definition is upon freedom of religion.<br />
Now, you may say that the federal constitution guarantees religious freedom – no state could take that away. Consider: what will likely happen when a homosexual couple decides they want to be married in a Catholic church, by a Catholic priest, or in a Mormon chapel by a Mormon bishop. When that request is turned down, which it will be, there will likely be a lawyer in the parking lot. The issuing legal struggle will likely end in the revocation of California tax free status for any church that continues to refuse to perform a same sex marriage. There may also be other legal sanctions. What will happen when a guy activist attends an evangelical class on Romans chapter one. The instruction given will undoubtedly be declared illegal as this chapter of the scriptures clearly speaks of the homosexual life style as sin.<br />
This is not just paranoia. Recent court decisions from both California and other states, clearly illustrate where the courts are going. It has been only a little more than a month since the California Supreme Court declared that a doctor could not, on religious grounds, refuse to treat a gay patient. I&#8217;ve been told that this decision was very narrow and will not have significant effect. That may be true, but it&#8217;s the wording of this decision that is of most concern: &#8220;In California, the law against discrimination trumps religious freedom.&#8221;<br />
Ok, maybe there is some intolerance involved, but you can see that intolerance goes both ways. If Prop. 8 does not pass, many of us will be legally required to accept and act on, a definition of marriage that we can not accept and stay true to our religious beliefs. If this definition remains in legal force in California, we and many others will have little choice but to leave California and go to where we might be free to live according to those religious truth that we find in our scriptures, even the Holy Bible. Can you see that not far down this slippery slope is a law that will even ban the Bible? On which side is the greater intolerance?<br />
Now, perhaps you can understand why these signs are on my lawn, and why I, and many of my friends, are donating more than we can afford and are spending more time than we can spare going from door to door encouraging a YES vote on this proposition. I apologize to any whom I might be offended by my actions. My intent is not to offend only to defend.&#8221;</p>
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